The internet has been going crazy with reports of the standoff between the Federal government and supporters of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, and to hear a lot of people, this has been the first trial attempt by the government to confiscate private property. Well, maybe not.

According to news reports, the dispute started way back in 1993 when the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) changed their agreement with Bundy, whose family has been ranching for well over 100 years, to include some environmental protections he did not agree with. Bundy disagreed with the changes and refused to pay his grazing fees but continued to keep his cattle on the land. Five years later, in 1998, the rancher was ordered by a judge to remove his cattle from the land and pay trespassing damages. Bundy ignored that order, and in 2013, a judge authorized the government to seize approximately 900 of his cattle that were still on public land.

Things escalated from there. Bundy, whose Mormon family has operated a ranch since the 1870s, tells reporters that he doesn’t recognize Federal authority on public land. Various groups and individuals showed up at the scene to support his claim, including some armed militia members.

Now the camouflage freaks are claiming victory because the Feds backed down and bloodshed was avoided, though I have no doubt that at least a few of the trigger happy folks who showed up at the standoff were disappointed that they didn’t get to go to war.

But cut through all the rhetoric on both sides and it comes down to this – sometimes you have to pay your bills. Bundy isn’t some starving rancher just trying to hold it together from season to season. He’s apparently rather wealthy, in fact. Yet he has refused to pay fees that have been upheld in court more than once. So he’s basically ripping off you and me, the rest of the American taxpayers. Sort of like those big faceless corporations we all bitch about with their tax breaks we can’t get.

So he doesn’t agree with the 1993 changes to his leasing agreement. If I lease an apartment or a commercial building and the landlord changes the terms when it’s due for renewal, I can accept them or move out. Bundy chose to keep using the land and he hasn’t paid his fees. That seems pretty cut and dried to me, no matter how much flag waving and sabre rattling they try to hide behind.

The wingnuts will claim that those fees are illegal. Yeah, I know, I heard you over and over when you claimed the income tax is illegal, too. But guess what? If you don’t send Uncle Sam a check by midnight tonight, the IRS will come knocking on your door. Even though they are nice folks, if I don’t make my payment to my credit union in a timely manner, they will come and get my motorhome. If I break the law and get a ticket I have to pay the fine. I may disagree with the interest rate on my loan or the speed limit. But we don’t always get what we want. Sometimes we have to pay.

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47 Comments on Sometimes You Have To Pay

  1. diana ruelens says:

    He is just a big ass squatter, and he will get no sympathy from me. I read his arguments in the court case, and it sounded like he got them from his local bar clientele……laughable.

  2. Charlotte Jaeger says:

    My brother is all fired up about this and says its the first step in the revolution that’s coming. He was ready to take his two teenaged sons and go there to be part of the resistance. I have read everything I can find about this Bundy guy and he’s got megabucks but won’t pay his cattle grazing fees that courts have upheld, as you said. He has defied legal court orders for decades. What makes him any different than any other tax cheat or deadbeat? But the wingnuts as you call them (I love that term!) are all ready to start shooting. I hope it doesn’t come to that but this may not be over yet.

  3. Harry Stuart says:

    This fruitcake reminds me of Bill Cooper, the looney tunes who held out against police and US Marshals here in Eager, Arizona for months before local sheriff’s deputies killed him in a shootout that left a deputy shot in the head too. He claimed the income tax was illegal, that the Secret Service had killed JFK, that the US govt created AIDS to kill blacks and homosexuals, and to be in touch with aliens among other crapola that he preached in books, his blog and a wildcat radio show. And sure enough a bunch of militia types came to help him “defend freedom” against the evil govt. I lived nearby and had run ins with him twice. Both times he pulled a gun, once on me and my 10 year old daughter. I didn’t shed any tears over him when they killed him and I wouldn’t if this Nevada guy pushes it to that extreme.

  4. Mark Sanders says:

    Nick have you really become so brainwashed by the Obama socialist triad that you really believe what you posted here? Have you really turned your back on true American values to the point where you support the governments attack on another citizens liberty? I hope not and that your blog today is a late April Fools joke gone bad. Otherwise I pity you for your ignorance.

  5. Doreen McCallum says:

    Isn’t it funny how these real patriots love to wave the flag and talk about American values until those values involve things like paying taxes and obeying the law? I have a relative that loves telling everybody who will listen how he is a true patriot who loves his country. Yet he won’t pay income taxes and drove around for 3 years with no license plates on his car because he says the government cannot force him to pay taxes or license fees. The cops here are all afraid of him because he is just waiting for the chance to shoot somebody and would love to go out in a blaze of glory. And I still remember how during the Viet Nam war he got a medical deferment because of some cock and bull medical condition he and his dad got a doctor friend to sign off on. Yeah, that’s a real patriot for you!!

  6. Merle Crowder says:

    Here are some of Bundy’s claims:
    The Federal government does not own land ceded to it by Mexico in 1848.
    The US stole the land from Mexico and thus cannot charge him to use it.
    His family’s long use of the land grants them adverse possession.
    That he does not recognize the Federal government’s authority over him.
    The government wants to open the land to fracking and is trying to run him out.
    He has been targeted by government snipers who want him and his family dead.
    His family bought the land over 100 years ago.

    So if they bought the land it how do they own it by adverse possession? Why don’t they have a deed? And if the government wanted him dead, I suspect there are many ways to do it without all the fanfare. This guy is nothing more than a deadbeat who is rallying all sorts of conspiracy nuts around him. He needs to be locked up for trespassing, not made a hero or a martyr.

  7. George says:

    As much as I don’t agree with our government you are spot on again.

    I see above it is due to your love of Obama. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

  8. Robert says:

    You didn’t mention Nick that hundreds of other ranchers in the area have all been playing by the rules and doing just fine. How do you think they feel about this jack-ass freeloader getting off without paying his due all these years. Bundy says he has no problem paying the fees to the State of Nevada claiming it’s some kind of states’ rights issue, but I’d bet he’s just a cheat enjoying all those illicit gains to pad his profit margin.

  9. concerned in Florida says:

    For Mark Sanders:

    You are just plain wrong. W-R-O-N-G!

  10. Pat and Jim says:

    I don’t take any sides in this but just wondering if there is more to this than meets the eye when it seems that Nevada’s Republican Governor Brian Sandoval may be in support of Bundy while condemning the actions of Bureau of Land Management.

  11. Dawn & Jim says:

    Nick, you are absolutely spot on 100% right. He sounds like a wing nut bagger to me who is looking to pick a fight. He & his family have apparently gotten rich off their leasing of public land all these years & now they don’t want to walk away from that or even worse, pay up! Maybe we could send him & his ilk to summer camp in Russia so they could experience a really repressive government.

  12. Mike says:

    Well put Nick. Several of my friends have commented and put stories on Facebook about how the government was taking away this man’s land without cause. They also trumpeted the fact that the government “backed down”. I have avoided commenting on the topic because they don’t want to hear the facts of the case. As others have said I don’t agree with everything our government does, but it appears that the government is well within its rights in this case. When did common sense become uncommon?

  13. Jim Vierra says:

    Nick, I agree with you and you are spot on.

  14. Kayjulia says:

    You have outlined the case very well. As one commenter noted other ranchers have paid their fees are doing fine. Just a side note It was President Reagan that signed the order to have fees for public grazing and he owned a ranch in California so he had some idea of what he was doing.
    I know if I don’t pay my fees and taxes I’ll be in big trouble and could lose my house and savings too. So why should this rich guy get off the hook? I bet he doesn’t. When there is a debt to the government the best bill collector in the country,the IRS, can come and get the money seize accounts, equipment, real estate, live stock right down to your boots. They have done it before and will do it again. This isn’t over by a long shot.

  15. Bob Derivan says:

    All I have to say is why is this guy any different than Native Alaskans? They have been granted exceptions to many State and Federal laws because of their 100’s and 100’s of years of history on the their lands. Just because the other ranchers around have caved in to an abusive government doesn’t mean he has to do the same. I’m just saying think about it. When do WE put a stop to it.

  16. John Q says:

    The Real Western States Issue here is; the Federal “Goobermint” needs to have it’s Non-Performing Incompetent Butts Kicked out of the 14 Western States Land Management. These lands should be OWNED & MANAGED by the individual States. The Fed (BLM & Forest Service) has done horribly in managing these resources with a “We Know What’s Good For You Western Hicks East Coast City Based Mentality.” The concept of Centralized Group Think/Planning did not work worth a darn for either the Soviet Union, or Obamacare.

  17. Greg White says:

    From what I’ve read online from multiple sources, and we know it must be true if it’s on the Internet.

    1. Bundy’s family has been ranching that area since the 1870’s, just a few years after Nevada became a state.

    2. Originally Bundy and his family paid the grazing fees to the state. There was NO BLM until 1946.

    3. At some point the BLM asserted control and he paid fees to them.

    4. In 1993 Secretary of the Interior Bruce Babbitt started jacking up the grazing fees double and triple the previous amount.

    5. All other multi-generational ranching families gave up grazing. Bundy is the only one left.

    6. This was all confirmed when during a Indian Trust Fund scandal in the late 1990’s involving Babbitt, and graft and corruption in the Fund. A Department of the Interior memo was released stating that Babbitt wanted “to use price increases as a straw man to draw attention from management issues.”

    7. As part of this, another memo was about “Range Reform ’94,” a cluster of proposed federal land use and environmental regulations described laughing in the memo as “A Thousand and One Ways to Get Ranchers off Federal Land.”

    8. Later the BLM floated the idea that this was going to be a protected habitat for the ‘endangered desert tortoise’

    9. To further this idea, the government created a Desert Tortoise Conservation Center in ‘Las Vegas’, apparently a known tortoise hangout, and gathered up over 1400 tortoises. In fact they had so many, they starting adopting them out.

    10. As might be expected with all these tortoises gathered together in close proximity, disease ravaged them, and 50-60% became ill.

    11. From the AP News Service, August 25, 2013:

    Back at the conservation center, a large refrigerator labeled “carcass freezer” hummed in the desert sun as scientists examined the facility’s 1,400 inhabitants to find those hearty enough to release into the wild. Officials expect to euthanize more than half the animals in the coming months in preparation for closure at the end of 2014.

    “It’s the lesser of two evils, but it’s still evil,” Roy Averill-Murray, tortoise recovery coordinator with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service desert, told the AP.

    Averill-Murray estimated 50 to 60 percent of the facility’s 1,400 tortoises were stricken with disease and could not be housed near healthy tortoises. Others were “too feeble to survive,” according to the AP, and could not be adopted out.

    “The ones that don’t get better and that are sick and suffering will probably be euthanized because that’s the sensible thing to do,” Allyson Walsh, associate director for the San Diego Zoo’s Institute for Conservation Research, said.

    That really helps the tortoises, now doesn’t it.

    12. Later, Bundy tried to pay the $300,000 the BLM said he owed. But the debt suddenly ballooned to over $1 million.

    13. Then a few years ago, tortoises went by the wayside and the BLM released a ‘regional mitigation strategy’ for the environmental impacts of the solar developments.

    From the plan:

    ‘The Gold Butte ACEC is preliminarily recommended as the best recipient location for regional mitigation from the Dry Lake SEZ. This ACEC is located 32 miles (51 km) east of the Dry Lake SEZ.’

    Gold Butte is where Bundy is located.

    The idea is that if they build these vast solar power farms covering 10’s of thousands of acres, they must set aside ‘mitigation areas’ to offset the solar farm use of the land.

    More from the plan:

    ‘The resource values found in the Gold Butte ACEC are threatened by: unauthorized activities, including off-road vehicle use, illegal dumping, and trespass livestock grazing; wildfire; and weed infestation.’

    Maybe that’s why the fees tripled when Bundy tried to pay them.

    So the cattle must go. Don’t know what they’re going to do about the weeds and the wildfires, though.

    BTW as of right now all solar plans have been cancelled due to no private company wanting to invest.

    So, finishing up.

    Is it possible that the federal government is now trying to drive Bundy off federal lands to make way for mitigation activities that enable the solar energy development to the north?

    Inquiring minds, and all that.

  18. John Miller says:

    You should talk to some of the local people around there, other ranchers and small business owners and get their opinion of Bundy. It might answer why so few (like none) are out there protesting in his behalf. They have had to live with him and his family a long time.

  19. Pat Wokeleitz says:

    You can cloak it in as many Tea Party “facts” as you want to and muddy the waters in typical Tea Party fashion talking about tortoises or whatever. But the one real fact is he has not paid his grazing fees and now he has to pay the piper. End of story.

  20. Donna Lonegmeir says:

    I very much dislike the government’s heavy handed way of doing things in most cases. But this time around they are doing what’s right. And yes there are other ranchers there still paying their grazing fees. Bundy is a crook and a crybaby who is used to getting his way.

  21. Greg White says:

    Pat, didn’t know AP News was a ‘Tea Party’ service. Everything I mentioned came from Google and sources like Las Vegas newspapers and national news sources. Please let me know where the ‘Tea Party Facts’ website is. I’d be interesting in seeing what they have to say about this.

    Also I didn’t realize the Tri-State Livestock News is a Tea Party paper, but they report here –

    http://www.tsln.com/agliving/f.....story.html

    where a Federal Judge ruling for the rancher named Hage said this:

    “The Court found, “In the present case, the Government’s actions over the past two decades shocks the conscience of the Court…”.

    This finding, coupled with the Court’s finding “that agents of the BLM and the USFS engaged in a conspiracy to deprive the Hage family of their vested property rights, opens the door to potential lawsuits against the individual agents personally for their unconstitutional actions.”

    Note the ‘conspiracy’. And this is from a Federal judge, not the Tea Party.

    His case also dates from 1993, so Bundy wasn’t the only one. And there are a number of other cases still going through the Federal courts concerning this. Bundy is not a isolated case. Just one of a couple of dozen.

    Donna, there are no more ranchers grazing in the area. All the rest dropped out when the grazing fees started skyrocketing. They still live in the area, but no longer graze on the disputed land.

    So, how many ‘wing nut bagger’s does it take before it’s a real conspiracy. Maybe he was just going to be the example.

    Judge Jones reasoned the trespass notices and demands for payment were meant “to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.” The Court noted such demands for payment were even issued to “witnesses soon after they testified in this case.”

    Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean someone’s not out to get you.

    Or at least a Federal Judge thinks so.

  22. Ron Butler says:

    Right on Nick. At least the majority of the people here seem to understand several things about this case. FWIW – here are several of my thoughts and reactions. 1 – BLM land is for the use, preservation for all of us. 2 – BLM grazing fees are WAY below market value if those ranchers had to pay them to a private land owner. Yes, it does help to off sent the cost of raising that beef, but the American taxpayers have helped to subsidize the ranchers cost and expense. Sounds like some “welfare queens” to me!! 3 – Please read the book “Wilderness Warrior” – it’s about T. Roosevelt’s push in setting aside wilderness and national park areas for that and all future generations of Americans and others to enjoy. Can you imagine what those areas would look like now if they had been left to the developers to have their way?

    Wow – to those Obama haters – this case started in 1993!! This guy is and has been sponging off all of us taxpayers! BTW – I have never really meant a “poor” rancher, and I come from several generations of ranchers and farmers!

    Right on Nick.

  23. Dale says:

    This guy Bundy is wrong.

    But even more so are the so-called Tea Party militia folks who went running with their guns to support him in a possible insurrection against the government.

    They’re so brave that Richard Mack, a militia leader, was advocating the use of women as human shields so if they were killed, the US would look worse in the eyes of the world. Talk about cowardice.

    My thoughts have been well expressed by Robert Reich, who asked in a recent column (paraphrased by me): are we people living in a community with shared responsibility for one another or are we a bunch of individuals who just happen to live in the same country.

    I proudly come from a blue state that insists on a safety net for its citizens. In addition, its citizens also watch out for one another via religious communities, schools and more.

    I have no problem with anyone who wants to be an individual and doesn’t want to be a part of this country’s community. And if they don’t want to pay taxes then: don’t use the country’s roads or any other services provided by the US. Don’t believe in the new ACA, then don’t use health insurance, but don’t go a hospital ER because under the law passed by Pres. Reagan, you must be treated even if you can’t pay. So, if you go, you are then being welfare queens living off of the insurance premiums other honest folks have paid.

    These folks remind me of the old “robbers” we’ve seen in the western movies – they want to do what they want to do but don’t want the law interfering. Doesn’t work that way very well with the size of the population of the US.

  24. Dave Walker says:

    Greg white great facts presented.
    Also the land is really ours and the Government is to take care of it in our behalf. Someone here stated that it was government land. Everyone as citizens of the US actually owns about 7 acres of BLM which they are to only manage for us.
    They say he now owes over 1 million dollars. But I agree with the solar farm. Our government has put them up in a lot of places such as here in the delta area of Sacramento valley.Most do not even run anymore. They are on land that used to produce grapes for vineyards for wine growers. They are also trying to sell off the water once again to LA and San Joaquin valley farmers through 2 tunnels that have already been started but the people have turned down. Now they are using the drought here as an excuse to say we have to do this or none of us will have water!!…..
    so if they want to do it they will. If he didn’t pay his taxes then so be it, but don’t believe everything you read and especially see on TV.

  25. Bill Kelbaugh says:

    I was a condemnation appraiser for 2 state highway departments. My concern is that there was a “taking” of property rights. The family has been using the property for years and years – they certainly had some rights. Suddenly the terms changed. I can find nothing where they were compensated for any property rights they have lost and are losing. The Constitution does have an eminent domain clause which requires the taking to be for a legitimate use and there must be “just compensation. In the 2 states I worked, we would have to compensate the owner of the underlying property as well as tenants and one example would be the loss of grazing rights.

  26. Donna Lonegmeir says:

    Bill just because the Bundy family has been using the land for years does not mean they own it any more than if my neighbor borrows my lawnmower and doesn’t return it make it his. So what property rights have they lost? They do not own the property and thus have no rights to it.

  27. Greg White says:

    Donna,

    Actually, if your neighbor kept it long enough, called it his, and you did nothing to take it back, it might legally become his. Google Adverse Possession. It’s the real legal theory behind Squatter’s Rights.

  28. Larry Chiuppi says:

    We have a system of law and this guy appears to be able to afford a lawyer. I don’t agree with Bundy not paying his fees. He has the right to argue his case in court. It appears that since Nick mentioned a Judge’s order at least twice, I suspect Bundy had at least two opportunities to do so. BLM allows camping on certain BLM land, Quartzite for example. They have both short and long term fees. If I parked my motorhome on BLM land and refused to pay the fee would I be any different than this man? How about if I parked on BLM land, refused to pay the fee and setup a business selling a product? or started a mining operation? He has gotten away with a lot more than you or I would as average citizens, that should upset all of you.

    With regards to state management vs Federal management, there are grazing lands in Colorado that are managed by the state, ranchers pay a fee. so what’s the difference? Those of you that say the land should be managed by the state I ask you this question, if a rancher decided not to pay his state fee would that be okay? How about private land that is leased to a rancher for grazing? If the rancher didn’t pay his fee would that be okay?

    How do we decide all of the above? It’s called our legal system not public opinion, yet thru public opinion we can get the law of the land changed thru our legal system. Civil Rights Act etc.

    I agree with Nick’s Title: Sometimes you gotta pay

    What a great country.

  29. Nina Seibel says:

    There was no concern for the Indian’s rights and they were here first. We are farmers and we have to follow rules, why shouldn’t Bundy? Our Government is far from perfect, but we are fortunate to have it in comparison with so many other countries. Speaking out is our right, but playing politics is just not right. This hate thing against Government or anything else is just sick. We will only survive as a nation if we work together and our politicians can’t seem to stop acting like little children long enough to actually care about our nation and all it’s people.

  30. Bob says:

    Greg White, thanks for being the voice of facts and reason. I’d like to know why Nick, in his main blog today had no problem deleting and banning folks who were disrespectful……but yet some of the name calling here is ok huh? Tea bagger, wingnuts, camouflage freaks! And just who were those “various groups” of people you claim were there with the armed militia? Americans expressing their 1st amendment rights maybe?
    You have no doubt the “trigger happy folks” are disappointed they didn’t get to go to war? What a pathetic statement.

  31. Ken turner says:

    if any of you out there value your rights to use any of your land in the Wild West, you had better wory about the Feds closing down a bunch of our land it ( us)! I belong to several outfits that are in the same type of gov intervention as buddy finds his self in . small scale prospectors have had the roads closed that make it impossible for them to get to their clames! not only have they closed many roads but dexstroied bridges and removed roads ! They are trying to award payback to those who supported them in the last elections, The nutcase tree hungers etc, If its not the spotted Owel ,a mouse, the snail darter minno,or in this case a dry land tortis then they will make up something else to keep humans off federal land ! believe me these people do not want you and I to have any rites to fed, land , Ken turner

  32. Elizabeth says:

    Thanks Greg for all you shared here!! Nice to have another point of view. I grow weary of my liberal daughter blaming the Tea Party for all manner of things. No, I am not a member…but I hate lies and untruths…and those who try to keep others from getting to the bottom of things. Nice to see some here who actually share facts, and from many sources, including federal judges!!

  33. Barb says:

    I rarely disagree with you Nick, but since I am no fan of the federal government, I disagree on this one..

    I agree with both Bob and Greg. I am also getting weary of those folks who manage to blame, so called (wingers) and or the Tea Party for things that have gone wrong the last 6 years..
    The government has become too big and heavy handed for years, but the last few years it has gotten out of control..

    The feds were simply met with folks who may or may not have been armed, but Americans who are getting fed up with strong armed tactic of the government..

    Too bad they don’t guard the border with as much force..

  34. Dave Walker says:

    It really is funny how most of the posters call this Federal Land or government land. Wake up folks its “your Land” and the fed’s only manage it.

    We gave them that authority and in law, WE THE PEOPLE can take it away. This is why they call it BLM, “Bureau of Land Management.”

    On Land lease permits you as one of these ranchers can and many do take the permit to a bank and borrow against it as if it belongs to them, which in theory it does but only the approximate 7 acres we all own.

    They give them a lessees grant deed for that portion of land that they would run their cattle on. So the question is can the bank also foreclose on Bunde if he didn’t pay his loan in full. How does that work if the land was really his to begin with!….

    Dave

  35. T.A. Martin says:

    A big “thank you” to Greg White for all the details he provided. It makes a difference when we know ALL the facts. When the fee jumped from the $300,000 (Bundy owed & wanted to pay), to over a MILLION bucks—that opened my eyes. Isn’t it funny that when some folks are delinquent on their taxes, a way is found to have the gov’t settle for a LOT LESS! Bundy’s case seems to be the opposite—hmmmm.

  36. Terry says:

    My guess is that the facts that are being shown here are not the facts at all for either side. This has been going on for years and there is no way that should have happen. Both sides in this case are wrong. Why has Bundy not removed his cattle along time ago has he no other place to put them and why didn’t the BLM have them removed along time ago. Then work the fines out in court.

  37. Jim Sathe says:

    I guess the “rule of law” doesn’t apply to millionaire ranchers. Guess I should have known since it doesn’t apply to millionaire bankers either.

  38. Allan says:

    The rule of law should apply to everyone, even the President but he seems to be able to continually ignore it. I am afraid we are seeing the start of the federal government controlling by armed force and bully tactics. This Administration has armed agencies of the government that in the past required no SWAT teams and if any force was involved the FBI or US Marshals or local law enforcemnt was used. Now every agency of the government has its own armed forces while our real Armed Services are drastically being cut. There is no legitimate reason for this. Why are our borders not properly enforced but the Feds can take almost an army to force a rancher off a relatively small piece of desert land that is not being used for anything else? There has to be more behind this than what meets the eye. The federal government is getting way too big and powerful and the Administration is picking which laws it wants to enforce and which ones it doesn’t, That is unlawful and unconstitutional. People in our nation are seeing the government over-reach and they are afraid that the rights we have always taken for granted may be taken from us. I think that is why so many rallied to Bundy’s defense even if he, by government standards , was in violation of BLM [federal laws]. They are afraid that if they did not take a stand that their own property might be next or their rights of speech, privacy, arms, religion, citizenship, etc that they see are being assaulted often.

  39. Jim Sathe says:

    Allan, your post is delusional, paranoid, ultra-right wing balderdash.

  40. T.A. Martin says:

    Perhaps the tortoise gang now occupying Bundy’s area are leaving & taking off for the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center in Vegas. If the tortoises make it big on the slots, tax money will really roll in or perhaps the Feds can have another Land-Grab. Imagine how much Turtle Soup that could provide. Just think, Turtle Soup & Tea provided by the Tea Party. We should change the Preamble of the US Constitution to read “We the Tortoises of the United States in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice,” etc. etc.

  41. Paul J Stough says:

    Another view point of the Bundy fiasco.

    http://news.yahoo.com/jon-stew.....23043.html?.tsrc=tmobustoday

    Paul

  42. Allan says:

    Name calling or race baiting is a tactic the left uses when they want to discourage opinions other than their own. I expressed my opinion. I have no more to say on this topic.

  43. Dave W says:

    The John Stewart thing was funny. He asked why they don’t have their own flag but alas they do. Some of you may have seen it on trucks around your town or on flag poles below the American or stae flag. It is the yellow flag with the raised head and coiled body of the snake. It say “Don’t tread on me”. These group use it as their own. But again this is the interesting part, It came form the revolutionary war before a lot of these laws were even made.

    Dave

  44. Dave W says:

    The John Stewart thing was funny. He asked why they don’t have their own flag but alas they do. Some of you may have seen it on trucks around your town or on flag poles below the American or state flag. It is the yellow flag with the raised head and coiled body of the snake. It say “Don’t tread on me”. These group use it as their own. But again this is the interesting part, It came form the revolutionary war before a lot of these laws were even made.

    Dave

  45. Paul J Stough says:

    John Stewart takes on Sean Hannity who sides with Bundy.

    http://theweek.com/article/ind.....on-stewart

    Paul

  46. Ron says:

    After Bundys views on Black people even Hannity backed offin support. This a man who people would died for. “come on Man” think this over. He doesn’t believe in the U.S. but he got the American flag and rides his horse with the Flag in hand?

  47. Barb says:

    Yup, Bundy said a stupid thing, but it does not change the (stupid) way the government handled the situation. Should not the government have been smarter in the first place?

    I can think of a few other people in Washington DC no less, who wear the flag on thier lapels, yet say stupid things everyday..

    The sad thing is the voters put them there.

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