I’ve never claimed to be a brain trust or anything. I gave up on being invited to join Mensa a long time ago, realizing that the best I can do is strive hard for mediocrity. But the more I read the news and listen to people talk, the more confused I get. So please help me understand here.

Hobby Lobby provides sixteen of the mandated birth control products, but didn’t want to provide four others that they disagree with and they are vilified and accused of denying women health care. Sixteen out of twenty!

I have no problem with a woman’s right to choose, but as a business owner, when did your right to choose become my responsibility to pay?

When I was a teenager, every sixteen year old boy I knew carried a condom in his wallet in the futile hope we’d get lucky, though I suspect that by the time that great event got around to happening, most of them would have opened the battered foil packet and found dust inside. But just like the rest of my buddies, I had my trusty Trojan tucked behind my library card, just in case. However, I would never have expected the guy who ran the gas station where I worked to provide it for me. That was kind of my responsibility. When did that change?

Now I have a question for all of the folks who are upset about Costco pulling Dinesh D’Ssouza’s book America: Imagine a World Without Her, which is heavily critical of President Obama, off their shelves, claiming that it was a politically motivated decision.

I don’t know why Costco made their decision, which has since been reversed, though to hear a lot of people, it’s all part of the vast left wing conspiracy. But no matter what the reason was, as a business owner, why is it my right not to serve gays even if I don’t want to, but not my right to not sell a book I don’t want to? Isn’t it all about the right to do business as their owners feel is right for them?

What if Costco said they pulled the book because they objected to it from a religious standpoint? Would that have made it okay?

Hey, I’m a veteran and Barnes & Noble won’t stock the printed version of my books. They say it’s because I’m a self-published author, but I think it’s all part of that same anti-American conspiracy because I’m a veteran. How come nobody’s raising hell with them and calling for boycotts on my behalf? I don’t get it.

If I don’t like something that you also don’t like, and I write something negative about it, my comments are thoughtful and inspired. But if I write something bad about something you are in favor of, my comments are obviously ignorant and suddenly I’ve joined that great conspiracy to destroy the great American way of life. How does that work?

Like I said, I’m confused.

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52 Comments on I’m Confused

  1. Greg White says:

    When I was 16 I had a girlfriend’s father ask to see my wallet when I picked her up for our 3rd or 4th date. While waiting for his daughter to come downstairs, he looked through it carefully before handing it back to me with a smile.

    Sure glad he didn’t check my glove compartment.

  2. Elizabeth says:

    Being somewhat private, I would not WANT my employer to pay for whatever birth control I chose…if for no other reason, to be sure it did not some way come to their knowledge…JUST BECAUSE such things are not anyone else’s business. Really being Hobby Lobby paid for the most of them already, how did it even make it to court anyway? We live in a society basically gone mad…or heading that way. Reason does not seem to matter, regardless of the subject at hand. When we grew up, if you were deemed mature enough to decide about certain areas of life, it was expected you would pay your own way!! And where did that go?

  3. Pam says:

    Hobby Lobby provided all 20 of the birth control methods until the ACA was passed and they were looking for something to use in a lawsuit. They didn’t do it for religious reasons they did it for political reasons and they threw their female employees under the bus in the process. They threw every woman in America under the bus, too, because the Supreme Court released a clarification that, although Hobby Lobby only claimed to object to four methods, the Supremes decision applies to all birth control methods.

    I love how so many men can be so flippant about this decision. What’s the big deal-they provide 16 out of 20 of the methods? The big deal is that your BOSS shouldn’t be deciding what method of birth control you use. If your doctor, knowing your medical history, recommends one of the unapproved methods because that method would be best for your health, it’s a very big deal.

    As for the argument that “well they are paying for it,” that’s B.S. too. Health care is part of the compensation packet from that particular employer. It’s not a gift out of the goodness of their hearts-the employees earned it. A male employee at Hobby Lobby can get his Viagra to screw his neighbors wife and the Hobby Lobby hypocrites are fine with that but if a female employee’s doctor recommends an IUD because the pill gave her life-threatening blood clots, she’s immoral and the insurance she EARNED won’t cover it. As Ruth Bader Ginsberg pointed out in her dissent, an IUD can cost the equivalent of almost a month’s pay. The Supremes even had the audacity to say that it didn’t matter that the SCIENCE doesn’t support their abortifacients claims, it’s enough that they believe it. This is dark ages stuff.

    I guarantee you, the same people praising this decision will one day see how horrible it is. Maybe when their daughter gets diagnosed with endometriosis and her choice of treatment is the pill or surgery but the pill isn’t covered. Or maybe when your Scientologist boss says your insurance won’t cover an anti-depressant. It’s a horrible, discriminatory decision that has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with control.

  4. Mary Lou says:

    I agree with Pam

  5. Paul J Stough says:

    This court decision is just one more reason why your employer should have no more to do with your health insurance, than they do your car insurance.

    Paul

  6. Thomas Copeland says:

    Where is it written that a company has to provide ANY medical insurance? If I were the boss and this name up I’d just cancel ALL insurance.

    And by your line of thinking Pam, would it be fair to say the woman wants the birth control so she can screw HER neighbor without fear of pregnancy?

  7. Louise Schiffland says:

    I get your point Nick. Conservatives say any business should have a right to make their own decisions on the one hand and then turn around and throw a tantrum when a business makes a decision not to carry a book. It doesn’t matter WHY they made that decision, the point is that either they do have that right or they don’t. Which is it?

  8. Al Hesselbart says:

    The abortion issue has always been about a woman’s right to choose. One side chooses Life for the baby, the other side chooses death.

  9. Patrick Harris says:

    Thomas is right, no business is required to provide any form of health insurance. Hobby Lobby could just as easily of said no more health insurance at all.So you’re wrong Pam, the company DOES pay for it as part of the compensation package, which they DO NOT have to provide at all. But like the rest of entitlement America, I want it all and you have to pay for it!!!

  10. George says:

    Just the crazy consequences of “Free” Market Capitalism. LOL!

  11. Sue Lewis says:

    As far as Costco goes, would the uber-conservatives have been all up in arms if they had pulled Hilary Clinton’s book instead?

  12. Anne Sullivan says:

    My daughter just turned 21 and is single. She’s complaining that her employer will not provide health care at all, let alone birth control. I told her it’s simple, find a new job if you don’t like it.

  13. Pam says:

    “Where is it written that a company has to provide ANY medical insurance?” In the Affordable Care Act. You know, that law that has been in the news for the past five years.

    “would it be fair to say the woman wants the birth control so she can screw HER neighbor without fear of pregnancy?”

    Fair? Fair would be saying if it’s no one’s business what a man does with his Viagra then it’s no one’s damn business what a woman does with her birth control.

    And one more thing that a lot of people seem to forget. Employees aren’t given health insurance for free. In addition to the work they do to earn their coverage, they pay a monthly premium. The money they now have to pay for an IUD or the pill is a gender-specific fee in ADDITION to the money they are already paying for their insurance. For many, many women of reproductive age, reproductive health issues are the primary reason they even go to a doctor most years. If the insurance they PAY for doesn’t cover those issues, is that fair?

  14. Carol Savournin says:

    Pam is absolutely correct. What if your employer happened to be Jehovah’s Witness, and refused to offer any health plan that allowed blood transfusions? Medical care is something that should be available to everyone in this country. Do we all agree on that? The folks sitting back and saying,”Well, just find a new job.” , are folks who are secure in their situation and not living on the edge of a precipice. When you have dependents, you cannot just walk away from a paycheck. Hobby Lobby sells thousands of products manufactured in China, where abortions are encouraged and often mandated. If these people really had religious convictions, that would have ceased long ago … but they get to cherry-pick their scruples.

  15. Greg White says:

    PAM,

    According to the Washington Post, not exactly a bastion of conservative thought, Hobby Lobby’s owners did not know that their plan covered all 20 methods of birth control. It was at that point that they protested.

    Planned Parenthood says that IUD cost between $500 to $1000 and last about 12 years. Let’s take an average of $750. Divided by 144 (12 years x 12 months/year), that gives us $5.20 per month. And if you have it done at Planned Parenthood, they take payments.

    Plus Hobby Lobby has never paid anywhere near minimum wage, but much more. Right after the recent Supreme Court decision, Hobby Lobby announced that they were raising their minimum wage from $12.50 to $14.50. That’s TWICE the Federal minimum wage. That means that the lowest paid Hobby Lobby employee makes over $30,000 a year, not exactly poverty level.

  16. Greg White says:

    Pam,

    Your statement – “Where is it written that a company has to provide ANY medical insurance?” In the Affordable Care Act. You know, that law that has been in the news for the past five years. – is not quite correct.

    Birth control coverage was not in the ACA as signed into law on 23 March 2010. It was just added in without anyone voting on it, over a year later in August 2011.

  17. Pam says:

    Wow, Greg, that’s some pretty convenient morality. So they were “sinning” for years and years but just didn’t “know” it. Sure.

    They didn’t protest “after” they found out. They went looking for a reason to protest. The owners were approached by a political group that wanted to challenge the Affordable Care Act and they combed through their policy to see if they could find a basis for a suit. That’s when they decided it was “immoral” to cover the very forms of contraceptives they had been covering for YEARS. They used their religion to make a political point and that is sacrilege.

    I bet if this were any other lawsuit, and the people suing had been doing the very thing for years they were trying to sue over, you would be outraged.

  18. Anne Sullivan says:

    Pam, according to this from healthcare.gov an employer is not required to provide health care.

    https://www.healthcare.gov/do-i-have-to-offer-health-coverage-to-my-employees/

  19. Anne Sullivan says:

    Pam, were you in the boardroom when Hobby Lobby made that decision? If not, how do you know they “combed through their policy to see if they could find a basis for a suit”? Are you all seeing and all knowing?

  20. Pam says:

    The question was about health insurance not birth control. I answered correctly. I also didn’t say it was signed into law five years ago, I said it had been in the news for five years. Are you seriously going to nitpick that?

  21. Pam says:

    Anne, Hobby Lobby doesn’t even dispute that. They’re PROUD of the role they played in this discriminatory ruling.

    The Affordable Care Act requires employers of Hobby Lobby’s size to provide health insurance or pay a fine. This is the very thing the right has been screaming about for years. I’m actually stunned that some of the same people who have been screaming about the fact that the Government requires employers to provide health insurance, are now saying it doesn’t. Unbelievable.

  22. Greg White says:

    PAM,

    So you’re saying a family who probably loses millions of dollars every year by closing on Sundays so their employees can go to church just suddenly decided that they didn’t want to cover abortifacients when they found out they were including in their plan?

    But this was all a devious plan.

    From a company that pays TWICE the Federal minimum wage?

    Oh, those terrible people!

  23. Kate says:

    Pam’s right, HL are picking and choosing their morality. Their pension plans invest in the companies which make the very pills they don’t want to provide, and their suppliers are based in China, where state-enforced abortions (and I mean actual abortions, not the prevention of conception which this case seems to have been twisted to mean abortion) are the norm. She’s also right that this is not HL’s money we’re talking about: healthcare is a wage in kind which the employees both earn and contribute to. How would you feel about your boss telling you he’ll pay you, but he wants the right to veto how you spend your money?

    Moreover, HL gets tax benefits for providing healthcare as part of their employment package, the caveat being that healthcare had to meet a minimum standard as set by the ACA. If HL really objected, they could have removed healthcare from their packages and spent the money on the extra tax instead. But no, they want to have their cake and eat it: this judgement means that they get to provide less than the required minimum and still reap full benefit from it. Ordinary Americans of the world, YOU are paying for this. You are also paying to cover the shortfall in their coverage. Do you have any idea what percentage of your tax dollars goes towards supporting huge corporations? The owner of HL has a personal worth of over $5 billion and you’re helping him to pay his staff the compensation they were lawfully entitled to under the terms of their contracts, because he thinks his religion is more important than doing so. Why aren’t you furious about that?

    And I’m so sick of seeing people slut-shaming women for using contraceptives. There are plenty of medical conditions out there which are treated with contraceptives, and even if there weren’t, so what? Last time I checked, it took two people to make a baby, and we only ever consider it a good thing when a man takes responsibility (i.e. by carrying condoms). Why is a woman taking that responsibility then such a bad thing?

    Making contraception harder to access will result in MORE abortions, not less. It will result in more people being trapped in poverty, more unwanted children being born, and yet more burden being placed on the state to pick up the shortfall. Insurance premiums will also rise because paying for a pregnancy, birth, and child medical care is much more costly than paying for an IUD or a contraceptive pill. And when all of these women are busy having babies, who is going to take their position in the workplace? America’s economy DEPENDS on its female workers, without whom there would simply not be enough people to staff the businesses which need staffing. (Nor, if they are not working, would there be enough consumers to buy the products the corporations are producing.) Whichever way you cut this decision, it’s a terrible one.

  24. Pam says:

    Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying because that is exactly what happened. Are you saying that they believed certain birth control methods were abortifacients but they never checked their policy to see if they were covering them? Sure.

    Anyway…I think I’m done with this for now. I’ve tried to state my opinion calmly and respectfully and I appreciate the fact that others have done the same. I think this decision is very wrong and very dangerous and I suspect we will all come to realize just how very dangerous it is in the future. Now, I’m going to go outside and get some fresh air. Thanks for the spirited debate. Carry on. :-)

  25. Connie Bradish says:

    Hobby Lobby did not want to provide the 4 methods of “birth control” that they considered abortion which is against their religious views. I am also against abortion and I do not want to pay through my tax payer dollars for women to KILL their fertilized egg/embryo/fetus/baby. When is the fertilized egg on up ever NOT ALIVE? Tell me.
    The abortion issue is not about a woman’s right to control her body. It is about the right of every human alive for a right to it’s life. Those of us who believe abortion is murder believe the fertilized egg on up has rights as a human to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    I taught biology in college and have a master’s degree in biology. Don’t tell me I don’t know what the difference between being alive and being dead is. For me this is not only a religious issue but a biological one as well. To destroy the fertilized egg on up is destroying life.
    How you personally view life is up to you, but the FACTS of biology don’t change because you want them to. I agree with being able to stop the sperm from getting to the egg. That happens naturally as most sperm and eggs DIE due to lack of fertilization whether NATURALLY or through contraception. But after the egg is fertilized it has the all the DNA for a complete human and is VERY MUCH ALIVE at every stage of development.
    Please spare me the sarcastic remarks about, “Oh then we shouldn’t stop egg and sperm from getting together, it’s not natural.” Most eggs and sperm die as a result of their not completing their task of creating a new human. I personally view abstinence and other forms of keeping the sperm and eggs apart as OK. That’s my view. You may not have that same view. You may think abstinence is the only correct birth control.
    But the real issue here is about AFTER the egg and sperm unite. So when is the new life a human to you? At the beginning, 3 months, 6 months, only when it’s born? You can talk yourself into any view you want. But from a biological point of view terminating a pregnancy through abortion is KILLING a living human at every stage of development.
    I don’t believe a company or a nation HAS to provide you with the ability to kill your unwanted child. And I don’t want to pay for your actions. Time for people to take responsibility for their own actions. And time for women to realize an abortion is killing your child. That’s what abortion rights activists don’t want you to know or think about. But it should be on your conscience each and every day if you have terminated a life you helped create. There are circumstances of rape and incest which should be considered. But it’s still terminating a life if an abortion is preformed.
    And the FACTS are terminating a fertilized egg/embryo/fetus/baby is KILLING life.

  26. Llana says:

    Aw, Nick, you stirred up a hornet’s nest here, didn’t you? Well, I have some thoughts myself that have been simmering for a very long time.

    You said: “I have no problem with a woman’s right to choose, but as a business owner, when did your right to choose become my responsibility to pay?”

    When did it become “right” for insurance to cover penile implants and Viagra and Cialis? Let’s pick and choose THERE, why don’t we. At the moment, I do not believe that it is “my responsibility to pay” for any man’s recreational sex through MY insurance costs. Perhaps he should pay the retail cost himself out of his own petty cash, or just go find some other hobby.

    Unlike the gender-specific coverage that men enjoy, this ruling ISN’T about recreational sex for WOMEN. It is about serious medical products that doctors prescribe for American women who need *SAFE and AFFORDABLE* methods of care against unwanted pregnancies with fewer, dangerous, medical complications.

    Affordable… covered under insurance… and doctor-chosen. Medical decisions should always be a private matter between doctors and their patients — certainly NOT between women employees and their boss.

    And insurance? It should provide routine coverage of women’s doctor-prescribed, medical needs, so long as it covers all those “little blue pills” and related “recreational” items used by men.

    And about all that, I’m not the least bit confused.

  27. Randall says:

    Nick you kicked a hornet nest. The bible was written a long time ago and has been translated several times but I’ve been unable to find any passages that say abortion is a sin. Our constitution has the word born not fertilized egg. Corps. are always trying to play both sides protect my personal assets if I kill some one from a defective product but I want my religious views incorporated. What a joke. The bible tells us a person chooses to a christian not a corp. Webster’s tells us a corp. a body that is granted a charter legally recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own rights privileges and liabilities distinct from those of its members. The telling words here are separate and distinct from its members. A corp. can not have a religion.

  28. Mac McClellan says:

    You’re starting to sound a little like a Libertarian Nick – that’s a compliment in case anyone is wondering 😉

  29. Nick Russell says:

    I think health insurance should cover health. That doesn’t include birth control,little blue pills or any of that.and it’s not exactly like your boss will be sitting in during your exam with your doctor.

  30. Judie Ashford says:

    Does anyone know if Hobby Lobby actually covers penile implants, Viagra and/or Cialis? Or if they really invest in the very medications that they say are immoral? How would one research this to a correct conclusion?

    Way back when . . . 1966 (at the age of 23, married, and with a three year-old child), I started taking birth control pills to control a future birth. The cost was about $3. a month, and the company I worked for (Owens-Illinois – a pretty big company) did not provide much in the way of any kind of insurance. “The Pill”, as it was known as then, was a much better alternative to abstinence, which was the other option. Trust me, a 23 year-old Irish Catholic husband is not big on abstinence.

    Out of curiosity I just skimmed around the net a bit to see if I could find what the current cost of a month of birth control pills would cost. WOW!

    http://blog.credit.com/2013/08.....ll-prices/

  31. Randall says:

    Your wrong Nick the pill is used for endometriosis,migraine due to hormone imbalance,bleeding between periods,ovarian cysts and a few other disorders you may not want discuss here. So it is a health and well being issue for many women and the people they live with. I have been an Ultrasound tech for 38 years and hear about these problems on a daily basis. Thats the problem with the news and politicians they rarely have facts and people get upset about misinformation or partial truths that they claim are facts. My Mom aways said half truth is still a lie.

  32. Nick Russell says:

    Randall, if birth control pills are prescribed for the problems you describe I have no problem with that. But I don’t feel it’s an employers responsibility to pay for them if used for birth control. Just as I don’t feel it’s an employer’s responsibility to pay for Viagra (the little blue pill I referenced).

  33. Ron Butler says:

    Sorry Nick, but birth control is a health problem and situation. Kudos to Pam, Kate and the other women voicing their concerns and opinions. Isn’t it interesting, the sexual division of the posters! I have always said, that if it was the male that was the child bearer, there would have never been this much controversy over birth control and whether it should be covered in a health plan.

    Birth control is not abortion procedures. Those who are against abortion really needs to read some of the history in the fight for birth control techniques for women and the battles that Margaret Sanger went through. Do you truly believe that if we make it illegal now, it would disappear? Sorry to get that much off topic, but couldn’t resist!

    The other comment is that these businesses are “public” businesses aren’t they? When you open your doors to the “public”, you are still able to discriminate?

  34. Randall says:

    Nick there something call HIPPA a law that protects privacy between patient and doctor so how will the employer know why the patient is treated unless they are violating this law? It will not lower the cost of an employers portion of the cost of insurance its like a package deal you may need surgery and someone else needs meds others may not have a claim for years its called shared cost. It works the same with taxes some people use the roads more others are getting much more back in social security than they ever paid in even if you figure in interest accrual.

  35. Dave Walker says:

    None of this really matters because according to the Sacramento Bee I read an article this month on ACA and Covered California as well as other states that have setup theirs also. These programs are based on how many people sign up and are accepted to them. Well the Insurance companies are finding way to back out and say that they are not going to pay the cost and going back to before the people signed up and then canceling their policies. One couple here got a refund for 450.00 they paid Blue cross anthem and then was canceled and got a bill for $80,000.00 for the procedure they had done, plus the cost of the hotel that they had to stay in while the wife was in the hospital.
    Soon within 2-3 years there won’t be enough people in the programs for the feds to put enough into the programs for the states to have enough to keep their programs going. It said that the Tax payers will end up paying a lot of it but the people in the programs will be getting a letter that their premiums will rise on average from $8,812.00 per year to $12,861. and because of these problems they expect people to be leaving these programs by the droves and that will make it even worse.

    Dave

  36. Nick Russell says:

    Randall, the same HIPA law will not allow the employer to know that a birth control pill was prescribed so how does the employer know it was prescribed at all? In all my years in the newspaper business I never received a report on what medications my employees were prescribed under their company insurance policy.

  37. Kari M. says:

    You’re taking in circles Randal. Are you saying that HIPA will allow a doctor to tell a company owner a contraceptive pill was prescribed but will not him why it was prescribed? Not in any company I worked for in my many years human resources. I never saw a reference to any specific medications prescribed to an employee.

  38. Connie Bradish says:

    I would like to respond to Ron Butler and his remark about the battles that Margaret Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood went through. Have you read any of her works? Let me give you a few quotes:

    From Women and the New Race Chapter 6
    (We should] apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.

    April 1932 Birth Control Review
    Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race.

    “America Needs a Code for Babies” 27 March 1934
    Give dysgenic groups (people with bad genes)in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization.

    Women and the New Race
    The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of it’s infant members is to kill it.

    On blacks, immigrants and indigents she said:
    “human weeds”, “reckless breeders”, “spawning … human beings who should never have been born.” from Pivot of Civilization

    On the purpose of birth control she said:
    it was to “create a race of thoroughbreds.” Birth Control Review Nov 1921, page 2

    I could go on and on (if you don’t believe me Google Margaret Sanger quotes or her ideas)

    The woman had the same ideas as HITLER. She was rabid about creating a race of humans to her standards which weeded out the unfit (again determined by her). She believes in permits for couples to have children and only the fit should be allowed to have children otherwise you would be sterilized.

    And Margaret Sanger founded Planned Parenthood on her ideas of eugenics. Her ideas were very very sick not ones to be praised.

  39. Sherrie says:

    As a business owner, I agree. CostCo has the right to carry the products that best suits who they are as a company. No business should be forced to carry certain products, to provide certain services, or for that matter to operate their business based on the whims of those on the left, the right, or in the center.

    Not all conservatives feel the same way about this issue, just as not all liberals feel the same way about certain issues. We are all individuals and as individuals we have the right to our own opinions.

    I am not the least bit confused. There will be those individuals who will stand behind any issue that puts their own favorite point of view on center stage. It is those people who will make the most noise and get the most publicity, regardless of which political stance they may take.

    I find myself more disappointed with CostCo in this whole thing than anyone else. If they really felt as if they were making the best decision for their business, why not stand their ground? Why allow those who disagree with them to bully them into giving up and giving in? All it does is make it easier for them to do it to the next company who makes a decision they disagree with.

  40. Allan says:

    Connie, I also believe in protecting life. You made a very good post and stated the life at conception well. Home Depot took a stand based on religious convictions , not a political stance. I do not want tax dollars to go for abortions. I agree with Nick on the issue that employers should not have to furnish Viagra, etc. or birth control pills unless it is a real health issue which the doctor can prescribe as a treatment. As for Costco and other businesses, they can determine what they sell and customers can decide whether they will shop there or not.

  41. Andrew LaRosa says:

    I see it this way. If a business wants to sell a product that is there right. If a business don’t want to sell it that is there right too. All the BS over a book is stupid. As for birth control I was like Nick. Had that rubber in my wallet forever. If a 16 year old kid can get one so can a working grownup

  42. Charley Echols says:

    We have become such an entitlement society! My dad worked hard all his life for low pay and never had any benefits. By the time I went to work things had improved a lot and I did get major medical but I paid over half the cost and it had a high deductible. My son and daughter make more in a month than I did in a year and have excellent benefits including retirement and health care packages. My granddaughter is the first to graduate college, makes a small fortune, gets profit sharing, gets medical and dental, gets a company car and phone. And she’s bitching because her employer doesn’t pay enough, doesn’t giver her enough personal time off, will only pay half of her tuition when she takes college classes and won’t pay her for the hours she spends in a classroom, and now she’s on a rant because they raised the price of daycare at her office building from $3 a day to $5!

  43. Terry says:

    I’m confused that everyone here thinks they are right. That anyone with a different thought than theirs is totally wrong and there is no middle ground to come to on anything in today’s social media.

    Having said that, I would like to add my two-cent to the topic. Forty seven percent don’t pay any Federal taxes. It’s on many of the radio and cable news programs every time taxes come up.

    I’m confused, what is the gas tax at the pump? Gas guzzler tax, special tax dealers are charged – and pass right along to you on the sticker price, The federal tax on a pack of cigarettes is 39 cents, Almost half of the cost of beer and liquor comes from excise taxes. Hidden taxes on travel Airfare, hotels, your rental car. I could go on but you get the point.

    The funny part just let the talking heads start talking about the taxes they pay. They are quick to bring up every tax under the sun. Federal taxes, State taxes, Local taxes, City taxes, County taxes, S.S. Taxes it all adds up to 65 or 70 percent. O.K. I understand that but why when talk about the bottom 47 percent and only use Federal taxes? Mitt Romney’s “47 percent” comment came word for word from comments I have heard on talk radio a thousand times. I not sure Romney would have ever said anything like that if not for talk radio. Taxes of any kind will never be fair how could they be. But if someone is going to talk about taxes and how unfair they are to the rich and how unfair it is that 47 don’t pay Federal taxes. Then they have just made the United States into two different classes of people. But as I said in the beginning I’m confused.

  44. Dave Walker says:

    Well part of the 47% that they don’t tell about happen to be Business owners and or Corporations. The business owners do pay Self employment taxes as well as Licensing fee’s (Tax)equipment taxes, Travel taxes, Vehicle taxes, etc.etc.etc. Corporations transfer taxes through their company to the Government that have been collected form sales, etc. So some that people say don’t, Do pay taxes and a lot.Corporations sell things which even the poor can purchase as in these health plans which makes money for the bottom line of the Corporation that pays their taxes by deductions. Its just a circle.
    Others they are talking about don’t make enough to have to legally pay taxes but they don’t tell you that they are also figured in.
    We all pay a lot of taxes but that’s for all the programs that people want and that they think they are getting for free.
    Because of the talking heads the world today has become one or actually two brains and based on the two party system. you are either blue or Red and you have to pick a side or be beaten to a pulp by the media for not playing on their side. Well its time people stand up and say, ” I am darn tired of it and am not going to take it anymore!… It worked before.

    Dave

  45. Janine Rose says:

    I’m confused too, Nick. This blog went viral with topics that had nothing to do with your comments.

  46. Terry says:

    Hobby Lobby provided all 20 of the birth control methods until the ACA was passed and they were looking for something to use in a lawsuit.

    Who cares, the big picture here is single payer. Is that what we all want?

    Pam said, the big deal is that your BOSS shouldn’t be deciding what method of birth control you use. So GOVERNMENT deciding is going to be better? How many people were happy when John Glover Roberts, Jr. made the ACA a law by making it a tax but are upset with the Hobby Lobby ruling? Can’t have it both ways, even if we think we can.

    What happens when the GOVERNMENT decides a women can’t have an abortion because someone needs a heart transplant what then. Don’t think it can’t happen. Three words for you, Veterans Health Administration. What if it’s the other way around? Death panels anyone. You on the left don’t get upset we have death panels now. Who will be worst the government or your employer and insurance company? The right cries you can’t keep your insurance or your doctor under ACA. I worked for 50 years and never one time did I pick the health insurance company, my employer did, and there was a time I had to pick a doctor from a list provide by my health insurance company.

    Answer me this, how can any bill be more than 100 pages? How can you pass a bill and parts of the bill be written latter?
    Who cares, the big picture here is single payer. Is that what we all want?

    Oh before I forget I don’t believe “Health care is part of the compensation packet” it is a perk the employer doesn’t have to provide it. Not even under the ACA they just have to pay the tax (thanks John Glover Roberts, Jr) for not providing it.

    Are we confused now because that’s the plan.

  47. Terry says:

    If I don’t like something that you also don’t like, and I write something negative about it, my comments are thoughtful and inspired. But if I write something bad about something you are in favor of, my comments are obviously ignorant and suddenly I’ve joined that great conspiracy to destroy the great American way of life. How does that work?

    Janine Rose; Nicks last statement kind of opened the door for me. Maybe I took some liberty with the confused part. But back to this statement of Nicks. Let’s talk about Congress vote to increase the debt ceiling.

    So the debt ceiling will go up. And that means that at least 50 senators and more than 200 House members will cast a politically toxic yea vote.

    In 2003, 2004, 2006, the yes votes went all Republicans and while almost all Democrats voted no. Guess what happen in 2009, 2010, 2013 the vote went just the other way with all Democrats voting yes and most Republicans voting no. What happened that they all changed their mind?

    Are we confused now because that’s the plan.

  48. Barb says:

    Somehow Nick I do not believe that you are confused at all:) You kicked the hornets nest and it makes for a great discussion/debate.
    You have quite an interesting mixture of fans here that read your blog.. For years my husband and I have mostly held the same or similar beliefs as yours.. We were self employed most of our 45 years of marriage.. For a few years, before we owned our own business, we voted for one particular party. Why? I guess because our parents did.. Later, after going into business for ourselves, we changed parties because the party we were members of were not business friendly..
    In the last few years our views of both parties have changed..We are no longer members of either the blue or red party..Our country is in a turmoil and we blame both for the mess we are in.. The fiasco on the boarder has made it worse.
    As far as Hobby Lobby goes, we backed Hobby Lobby and were happy at the Supreme Court’s decision.. I love our Hobby Lobby.
    As far as Costco and their right to sell what they want? We agree with you, however, smart business folks listen to their customers.
    We were one of those customers that called our Costco to find out if they sold the book, America. The person on the phone said that some stores did, they did not, but were getting it back on the shelves.. We only called because after seeing the movie, we wanted to buy the book..We do not threaten..
    I do not care what party Costco stands behind, we love shopping there and would not change, even is they did not sell the book..

    Barb

  49. Jim McManus says:

    Lots of posters above seem to be confused. Unfortunately, many seem to be long on confusion and short on facts. My DW and I are self employed and pay just short of $24,000 per year for health insurance. Our insurance does not cover Viagra. The reason that all those letters came out that your insurance is cancelled is that pre ACA policies seldom if ever met ACA standards and under the law it was illegal to sell a policy that was short of ACA standards. All those policies could not be renewed in their old form and the new policies were required to meet ACA standards. Under our new ACA policies, my 60yr old wife is covered for maternity care. We are both covered for pediatric dental care for all our dependents under 18. Those are facts from my insurance policy. The authors of ACA wanted to make sure that ACA was very, very, good coverage because they weren’t paying for it.
    Regarding death panels. They were created by talk radio, they do not exist in the ACA legislation. Talk radio (and TV) are not required to use facts, they can and do say whatever they want to push their agenda, on both sides. I personally feel that listening to talk radio or TV is right up with thinking Congress is doing a great job.

  50. Barb says:

    Jim, it’s so good to read a post where there person knows what they are talking about..There were several here that posted bologna about Hobby Lobby and their insurance coverage for their employees..
    It’s also distressing that so many must love the whole (big government) thing and must believe that there is a “war on women” if they don’t get everything covered. Sandra Fluke is a terriable example for young women.. I am sad to see this dependent society grow even more dependent on government..

    All we have to do is see what some of the veterans in some states go thru to get the health care they need and try to understand WHY anyone would want that for the rest of society..
    Why would anyone want the IRS and big government to be in charge of our health care needs?

    Generally the federal government does very few things efficiently and cost affective..

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